C'mon, Junior, Sound It Out
Here's an interesting question for the literacy types: Given that persons raised to read the roman alphabet (as in English) have little trouble – as evidenced by the number of persons of that group able to learn the language – learning to read Russian, written in the cyrillic alphabet, can we expect persons raised to read the roman or Cyrillic alphabets to find little difficulty in learning to read a derivation of the Devanagari alphabet?
Similarly, would persons raised to read a language in the Devanagari alphabet (as in Hindi) have any trouble learning to read a language, the alphabet for which is based on Devanagari (as in Bengali)?
This set of questions comes from my having once been able to sound out many words in Hindi – a talent long lost or at least seriously attenuated – begging my being able to quickly learn to sound out words in the Bengali alphabet. This goes to the question of whether my ability to sound out words in the Cyrillic alphabet is based on the derivative nature of the two alphabets (Roman & Cyrillic) from a source that gives them similar graphic features. A is A in Russian and English. Same-same M & M. Even G in English has a similar grapheme in Russian (Γ, г), by way of Greek (Γ, γ) which a person nominally educated in the history of the alphabet of either language would know, providing there was a need to have this information available.
This also proposes that a person who has a nominal literacy – at least to the point of being able to sound out words – in the Roman or Cyrillic alphabets – might have difficulty becoming literate in Bengali even if the person had at one time had experience with the Devanagari alphabet.
Within the bounds of my personal history, it works out like this: Many years ago I got a book on what was then called "Hindustani," with the story in the book going that this was a name for two languages, Hindi and Urdu. These two languages are different, but at least for me, knowing the Devanagari alphabet made life interesting, mainly because someone had removed the pages of the book – a library book – that showed me the Devanagari and the Arabic-based alphabets.
Research on this led me to the proper alphabet by way of Sanskrit, which led me on another tangential goose chase that isn't part of this story.
So with the Devanagari alphabet finally in my grasp I was able to learn how to spell some of the words & sound out sentences in other books that used the alphabet.
Given as the book itself was flawed in that it did not show a difference in the pronunciation of different graphemes (the three different n sounds, for example) and made no difference graphically between /r/ and /ŗ/, I was pretty well done
Eventually I found another book on the language which went to great pains to explain the various phonemes peculiar to Hindi & Urdu. Of course by that time I moved toward other tangential distractions and other than buying the book & putting it on the shelf next to the original book, I got the gist of things and went aimlessly down the road of a dilettant.
Recently, however, I've been distracted by Hindi and it's sister languages that use the Devanagari alphabet or an alphabet derived from the Devanagari character set. And since one of the pushes for this distraction is having come across – once again as in many times before – the story of a Hindu mystic from the middle 19th Century, who lived in what is today West Bengal state, I'm looking at the Bengali language, among others.
Add to this my tendency toward interesting grapheme sets, typography & the artistic nature of type, type style & composition and you can get where this is going.
It ain't the languages that attract my attention here. It's the neat little wiggles of ink on the page that I'm interested in. As in: I think the Devanagari alphabet is cool, but I think that the shape & texture of the Bengali version of that alphabet is downright pretty. And Gujarati is as well, but for a different reason.
Bangla is neat 'cause it seems almost driven by a runic style.
Gujarati is neat 'cause it seems driven by a quick scan cursive style.
One is rectilinear & strong; the other is curvy and quick.
As for the languages themselves, well, that's another point. But right now I'm trying to figure out the alphabets' ability to slip cognitively from one design to the other in the same way that a line of Kennerley Italic will have a completely different feel from, say, Cooper Italic. Both can be read by a literate person, despite the differences in the shapes of the letters across the designs of the two faces.
Literate persons do it all the time. The type face may change from serif to sans serif and from roman to italic – or even more drastically from roman to "gothic" (the real name is fraktur) – and it's all just print on a page. Nobody has that much trouble figuring out what words are which & what the sentence or post card or whatever is printed to display.
My wonder is simply "Do literate persons in India who read Hindi have any difficulty shifting their literacy to Gujarati or Bengali much as literate English speakers move their literacy between sans serif type & fraktur? And what about people literate in any roman alphabet language learning to read a language that uses the Cyrillic alphabet?"
To be sure there is going to be a difference between simple literacy across type designs and literacy across completely different (but of original source) alphabets such as Hindi to Bengali or Gujarati. I say that because type design, at least as what I know of it by way of having a printing & typography background, is not the same kind of cognitive shift as would be necessary between English (roman alphabet) and Bulgarian (Cyrillic alphabet).
Why?
Gotta be.
There is at least a common look to the two alphabets. Even without looking at the characters that are obviously of Greek origin, and discounting for a moment the characters that are also obviously of Semitic origin, the two alphabets have many shapes in common. (And the charts are linked, by the way. Click on 'em to see 'em in a better/fuller size.)

This is where my question steps in: given the physical similarities between the two alphabets, is the similarity in shape conducive to learning only in this case or does this also apply to alphabets that do not, on first glance ('cause there's some contention on origins) appear related to the Roman or Cyrillic letters?
And if so, is there an explanation for my having to fight with learning the Bengali alphabet even though I have experience with the Devanagari alphabet? Like here's the Devanagari letter set for consonants:

Now comparing these to the Bengali consonants, at least to my sight at 61 years of age, the similarities between the Devanagari and Bengali are obvious:

And given that, why am I having so much trouble learning to read the Bengali characters? Part of it is being an old guy & not some kid learning off a slate under a tree or a thatched roof hut. The kid's disadvantage is a lot less case-hardened than mine. Kids adapt. They learn easy. Old guys don't. We're grumpy and stuck in our ways.
Stubborn.
But the stubborn ain't payin' off on the learning of the Bengali script. I may be stubborn but I still wanna learn. You'd think that my being stubborn about learning this would have worked to my advantage. Eh?
And then there are the di- and trigraphs, the connection and collocation of letter elements that represent in one character a complex collection of sounds. Like the "most common" of these runs ten lines!

Then, of course, Sanskrit (also done up in Devanagari) has enough di- and trigraphs as it is . . .

At which point the only thing I've done is tell a story of my frustration and the questions that I ask, like anybody else in rehab, as to why this is so damn hard for me.
Wanna bet that a Brahmin kid in Calcutta who's learned to read Bengali has no trouble at all making sense (sound-wise) of some jumble of Devanagari letters he or she might see on a window or store sign, written in Hindi?
Betcha.
Bet it's so easy for the kid that he or she doesn't even notice that the language has changed. Bet they do it all day long the same way Hindu students will sit around talking about how to fix chicken curry and switch back and forth between English and Hindi or Urdu and English without a word being missed or a syllable dropped.
Betcha.
I am gonna have so much fun doing psych experiments when I retire. Hell, I might even come up with some sort of "addition to the knowledge base" thing that'll make me important for a couple minutes. You never know. Stranger things have happened.
Bush got elected to a second term.
Similarly, would persons raised to read a language in the Devanagari alphabet (as in Hindi) have any trouble learning to read a language, the alphabet for which is based on Devanagari (as in Bengali)?
This set of questions comes from my having once been able to sound out many words in Hindi – a talent long lost or at least seriously attenuated – begging my being able to quickly learn to sound out words in the Bengali alphabet. This goes to the question of whether my ability to sound out words in the Cyrillic alphabet is based on the derivative nature of the two alphabets (Roman & Cyrillic) from a source that gives them similar graphic features. A is A in Russian and English. Same-same M & M. Even G in English has a similar grapheme in Russian (Γ, г), by way of Greek (Γ, γ) which a person nominally educated in the history of the alphabet of either language would know, providing there was a need to have this information available.
This also proposes that a person who has a nominal literacy – at least to the point of being able to sound out words – in the Roman or Cyrillic alphabets – might have difficulty becoming literate in Bengali even if the person had at one time had experience with the Devanagari alphabet.
Within the bounds of my personal history, it works out like this: Many years ago I got a book on what was then called "Hindustani," with the story in the book going that this was a name for two languages, Hindi and Urdu. These two languages are different, but at least for me, knowing the Devanagari alphabet made life interesting, mainly because someone had removed the pages of the book – a library book – that showed me the Devanagari and the Arabic-based alphabets.
Research on this led me to the proper alphabet by way of Sanskrit, which led me on another tangential goose chase that isn't part of this story.
So with the Devanagari alphabet finally in my grasp I was able to learn how to spell some of the words & sound out sentences in other books that used the alphabet.
Given as the book itself was flawed in that it did not show a difference in the pronunciation of different graphemes (the three different n sounds, for example) and made no difference graphically between /r/ and /ŗ/, I was pretty well done
Eventually I found another book on the language which went to great pains to explain the various phonemes peculiar to Hindi & Urdu. Of course by that time I moved toward other tangential distractions and other than buying the book & putting it on the shelf next to the original book, I got the gist of things and went aimlessly down the road of a dilettant.
Recently, however, I've been distracted by Hindi and it's sister languages that use the Devanagari alphabet or an alphabet derived from the Devanagari character set. And since one of the pushes for this distraction is having come across – once again as in many times before – the story of a Hindu mystic from the middle 19th Century, who lived in what is today West Bengal state, I'm looking at the Bengali language, among others.
Add to this my tendency toward interesting grapheme sets, typography & the artistic nature of type, type style & composition and you can get where this is going.
It ain't the languages that attract my attention here. It's the neat little wiggles of ink on the page that I'm interested in. As in: I think the Devanagari alphabet is cool, but I think that the shape & texture of the Bengali version of that alphabet is downright pretty. And Gujarati is as well, but for a different reason.
Bangla is neat 'cause it seems almost driven by a runic style.
Gujarati is neat 'cause it seems driven by a quick scan cursive style.
One is rectilinear & strong; the other is curvy and quick.
As for the languages themselves, well, that's another point. But right now I'm trying to figure out the alphabets' ability to slip cognitively from one design to the other in the same way that a line of Kennerley Italic will have a completely different feel from, say, Cooper Italic. Both can be read by a literate person, despite the differences in the shapes of the letters across the designs of the two faces.
Literate persons do it all the time. The type face may change from serif to sans serif and from roman to italic – or even more drastically from roman to "gothic" (the real name is fraktur) – and it's all just print on a page. Nobody has that much trouble figuring out what words are which & what the sentence or post card or whatever is printed to display.
My wonder is simply "Do literate persons in India who read Hindi have any difficulty shifting their literacy to Gujarati or Bengali much as literate English speakers move their literacy between sans serif type & fraktur? And what about people literate in any roman alphabet language learning to read a language that uses the Cyrillic alphabet?"
To be sure there is going to be a difference between simple literacy across type designs and literacy across completely different (but of original source) alphabets such as Hindi to Bengali or Gujarati. I say that because type design, at least as what I know of it by way of having a printing & typography background, is not the same kind of cognitive shift as would be necessary between English (roman alphabet) and Bulgarian (Cyrillic alphabet).
Why?
Gotta be.
There is at least a common look to the two alphabets. Even without looking at the characters that are obviously of Greek origin, and discounting for a moment the characters that are also obviously of Semitic origin, the two alphabets have many shapes in common. (And the charts are linked, by the way. Click on 'em to see 'em in a better/fuller size.)

And if so, is there an explanation for my having to fight with learning the Bengali alphabet even though I have experience with the Devanagari alphabet? Like here's the Devanagari letter set for consonants:


Stubborn.
But the stubborn ain't payin' off on the learning of the Bengali script. I may be stubborn but I still wanna learn. You'd think that my being stubborn about learning this would have worked to my advantage. Eh?
And then there are the di- and trigraphs, the connection and collocation of letter elements that represent in one character a complex collection of sounds. Like the "most common" of these runs ten lines!


Wanna bet that a Brahmin kid in Calcutta who's learned to read Bengali has no trouble at all making sense (sound-wise) of some jumble of Devanagari letters he or she might see on a window or store sign, written in Hindi?
Betcha.
Bet it's so easy for the kid that he or she doesn't even notice that the language has changed. Bet they do it all day long the same way Hindu students will sit around talking about how to fix chicken curry and switch back and forth between English and Hindi or Urdu and English without a word being missed or a syllable dropped.
Betcha.
I am gonna have so much fun doing psych experiments when I retire. Hell, I might even come up with some sort of "addition to the knowledge base" thing that'll make me important for a couple minutes. You never know. Stranger things have happened.
Bush got elected to a second term.

It is probably really too much like hoarding, but if that's what it's gonna be, that's me. I confess. I get on jags where I want to find out about something and I spend huge chunks of time chasing stuff down. Back when I was a kid it was the local library, magazines, a monstrous pile of imagination & observation of tedious detail that I never showered on homework or household chores.
Some of it is the only source for knowledge on languages that may some day be as snuffed as I'll be by the time the books end up in the special collections shelves.
How this fits with language and linguistics is anybody's guess. To be sure, if you came here to read about language & linguistics, the worst case scenario is you've discovered a source for a book in German on the Mongolian language. That or you've discovered that for what you spent on radios you could have bought a real, made-in-India surbahar. Even if you lost the four volume set of Sambamoorthy's South Indian Music you picked up back in the 60s.

